THE MARRIAGE MIX

from the flickr photostream of kh2rac

I was beside myself with sadness and disappointment on Friday afternoon.  After a conversation that left my head spinning, I felt like I might become physically ill.  This is not a common response for me.  I can name two other times I felt this way, and they both involved instances of people being deceitful or unjust.  Once, I had to pull my car over to throw up - an unexpected and involuntary response to some very unfair news I heard over the phone.  And though I did not throw up on Friday afternoon, I was emotionally untethered.  Neither by myself nor in conversation with Herb could I seem to regulate my thoughts or my racing heart.  I nearly called my fried Sarah to cancel the plans I had to drop in for a long overdue visit and time of catching up.

Instead, I drove myself, shaking, to her home, practicing in my head how I could most concisely and accurately let her know what was going on with me.  From the moment I sat down in her sun drenched kitchen, my heart rate began to slow.  Before I even arrived or told her that I was having a very hard day, she poured me a beautiful drink - apple juice layered with sparkling water.  As I eyed the amber colored fizzing glass, I knew I had made the right choice to keep my plans to visit my dear friend.  At home I drink water.  Sometimes I make a pitcher of water filled with sliced strawberries and lemons.  But I have never layered apple juice and sparkling water.  She had something I didn’t have.  Something I needed.

As she talked, I looked into her dark kind eyes and listened.  I let her soothing voice slow my racing heart.  As she spoke, my pieces and parts that felt like they were all coming apart slowly began to find one another again.  My stomach went back to its place, leaving my heart alone to do its work of beating and thumping at a steady pace.  As the sun shown through her windows, I felt more and more alive.

Her words gave me perspective.  And options.  They helped me think about how I wanted to handle the situation presented before me.  But it was more than her words.  It was the soft music playing.  The drink.  The gluten-free crackers lovingly spread with dairy free “cream cheese”.  It was the culmination of Sarah doing life in a way that reflects her gentleness and her depth.  She was not just loving me in the moment, she was living out of love.  She makes choices in how she lives, daily that create an environment that nurtures, supports, and empowers.  By cultivating these gifts, she is not just being true to herself, but also loving those who may cross her path in the future while they are in a time of need.

Where did you see love working this week?

from the photostream of yoshiko314

“Coffee or tea?”, the handsome British flight attendant asked us.
Guarding my tear stained face best I could, I told him no thank you.

The reality of his question only worsened my pain.  Herb and I were not just talking about separating.  We were talking about separating while on an international flight, heading home after a holiday in the United Kingdom.  If we are being completely honest, I was talking about separating while on an international flight, heading home after a holiday in the United Kingdom.  Herb was listening and trying to figure out what to do.

Nothing happened while we were away.  No secrets uncovered.  No cruel words spoken.  If nothing else, it was the overwhelming sense that our marriage was not what I had wished it would be.  It was too painful to watch how the wounds we inflicted on each other during our first days and months . . . and years . . . of marriage had created a dryness in our partnership that just did not seem to be satiable.

Hearing the question, “Coffee or tea”, in such a flawless, proper accent made me cringe.  It highlighted the sadness of our conversation and left me feeling completely exposed.  There was nothing proper about what was happening in row 36, seats D and F (luckily we had the entire row to ourselves, as we are not above having difficult conversations on airplanes, with strangers sharing our row); and by that time, my eye makeup certainly was not flawless.

But it was more than a reminder that what we were going through that sunny afternoon over the Atlantic was a painful mess - it was a reminder that life goes on even in the midst of our pain.  While I felt like the bottom was dropping out from under me, the sun was still shining, people were still sleeping, and flight attendants were still offering coffee and tea.  I wanted life to stop long enough for us to figure things out.  I wanted to resolve my pain that I hold about this marriage; everything it is and is not.  I wanted to be able to enjoy being asked the question “Coffee or tea?” in a smooth British accent, while flying over the Atlantic, without being distracted by big questions like, “Will my marriage survive?”.

It may sound trivial, but more than anything, the struggles Herb and I face in our marriage can be boiled down to being distractions.  They keep us from living our lives - together and individually - to the fullest.  It is impossible to stop and smell the roses when your damn nose is constantly stuffed up from sobbing uncontrollably.  And while some people would be most horrified that they were sobbing uncontrollably on an international flight, I am mostly sad that those moments of sobbing (and there have been many) have kept me and Herb from enjoying what is right before us.  The moment.  Our lives.  The simple offer for a hot beverage on an international flight home from a lovely visit with friends.

I have either cried or yelled (and often both) in four different countries and several states in the United States.  I have cried and yelled on airplanes, bicycles, pedestrian bridges.  In subway stations and the Caribbean Sea.  Worse yet, I have lost countless chunks of my life crying on my couch, bed, and kitchen floor at home.

I am tired of crying.  So, there I sat on the airplane, telling Herb that I wanted to move out for a while so that we could each heal a little from all the yelling and crying.  So that we could figure out a way to come back together.  But despite his statement of agreement in the moment, I knew he would not go for it in the end.  Not because he would miss me.  But because he knows he might not.  And that always reminds me that I might not miss him.  And so we stay.

Some might think that not missing each other is sign we should clue into: that our marriage does not work.  That one of us should leave.  We agree that it is a wake-up call.  Only instead of viewing it as a reason to hit the road, we view it as a reason to continue on.  We use it is a litmus test as to how healthy our marriage is.  When it comes out looking brown and pukey, we know that our marriage needs more work.  We choose to take this perspective for a few reasons.  Partly because of our commitment to the marriage.  Partly because he knows that if we divorced, I would tailspin into a cycle of shame and I know he would get lost in a spiral of isolation.  But also because we love each other.  Because we know it can work.  We know that so many of the problems we have had are not based on incompatibility or bad chemistry.  We know this because when we are not fighting, we are the best of friends and we have nice chemistry.  No, our problems tend to crop up around our individual, pre-existing wounds and issues; our baggage.  In fact, I would be so bold to say that Herb and I are actually perfect for each other.  In highlighting old wounds, we are able to push each other towards healing and personal growth.  We believe that marriage is intended for companionship and support and intimacy.  But also to shape us and mold us.  To heal us.  And mature us.  Herb helps bring up these needs more than anyone else.  Herb stands by me as I try to sort out these needs.  And so we carry on.

Maybe it sounds ludicrous.
But maybe it is true.

Josh and Mandy have been married for almost 11 years.   They live in St. Louis, MO with their three children.

What is the largest source of conflict in your marriage?

He Said:

Miscommunication.  I think that communication is actually something we’re pretty good at, but we still misread and/or have a hard time understanding each other pretty regularly.  It’s tough to get and stay on the same wavelength, especially when we both have a lot on our plates with work, church, and friends.   On top of that, we’re trying to contend with issues with the kids.

Money/Goal achievement is one, too.  We are both very goal-oriented people.  We have goals relating to things like the house we live in, our roles in our church, vacations, how fast we can run a 5k, and so on.  Because of the phase of life that we’re in, progress toward these goals is very seldom made in a straight line, and that tends to be frustrating, particularly because of our personalities.  Instead of commiserating over these conditions—which I think we’d both agree we’d prefer to do—we sometimes lash out at each other because of them.

She Said:

Lack of understanding and communication.  When he feels like I have no idea what he deals with in a day and I feel like he has no idea what a day in my life is like.  If we don’t take the time to try and understand one another’s perspectives we become more isolated emotionally and less sympathetic toward one another.  That is when we start functioning independently of one another, and then I start to see Josh as more of an obstacle than a teammate.

How do you tend to manage conflict?

He Said:

Mandy prefers to go toe-to-toe, I tend to be more of a “this too shall pass” kind of a guy.  I have changed quite a bit in this area since we’ve been married and am much more direct in addressing conflict than I used to be—one of the many ways in which I’ve learned from Mandy.  Open conflict is a lot scarier to me than it is to Mandy, but the fear of slowly drifting off course is much more real to Mandy than it is to me.

She Said:

I like to face conflict head on.  If there is some kind of weird vibe between us, I want to address it and talk about it.  This can be good because I don’t let things get bottled up but it can also be bad.  For example, if Josh is thinking through something that I said or did, he needs the space to be able to do that.  Sometimes, my desire to get it all out rushes him through that process and makes him feel disrespected.

So, you may have noticed that things have slowed down around here a bit.  Oh my!  That is certainly true and I am so sorry about that!  Herb and I were abroad for almost two weeks.  I was unprepared for the time it would take for my body to readjust after this trip, and then from there, life kept happening.  So it has been a month since you have heard anything from me.  But hopefully you are still checking in here from time to time!  Just know that I will have something posted here - written by me - by Wednesday night!  From there, I intend to return to my previous blogging schedule!  Until then, please enjoy getting to know this month’s couple writing for He Said***She Said: Josh and Mandy Wright. They married early in college and have spent their entire adult lives cultivating a healthy, dynamic marriage.  I hope you are as inspired and encouraged by them over the next four weeks as I have been!

Josh and Mandy Wright have been married for nearly 11 years.  They live in St. Louis, MO with their three kids Jonah (9), Emma (6), and Amelia (3).  The Wrights are members of Greentree Community Church.  Josh is a Financial Advisor with Edward Jones, and Mandy works full-time in their home.  You can find Josh here.

What has surprised you about marriage?

He Said: I was so young when we were married, I didn’t know what to expect.  It was all a surprise.

She Said: I don’t think that I realized that God wanted to use my spouse, more than anyone else in my life to change me.  He wanted to show me my flaws, hidden motives and self centered behaviors through my marriage.  I would have loved it if I could have been a perfect partner for Josh from the beginning, but that wasn’t the way it happened.  It was hard for me to see that when I screwed up I not only hurt myself but I also hurt my spouse.  I really hated that at first.  I see now that God wanted me to experience the need for forgiveness from another person.  I spent so much of my life making sure that I didn’t owe anyone anything.  I think God knew that I couldn’t give mercy until I had received it.

What has surprised you about your spouse?

He Said: She is very feeling and longs for companionship.  She is a strong woman—she thinks independently and acts courageously.  These were some of the qualities that I was most attracted to in her.  But she needs reassurance, too.  She needs to be encouraged.  She needs someone to be proud of her.  It was both a surprise and an honor to learn that she hoped to find these things in me.

She Said: His ability to forgive.  I am not so good at letting go of wrongs done to me, but I have received so much mercy and forgiveness from Josh that I am quicker to show mercy now than I was before marriage.

For a quick refresher on Tony and Kelli, see the post from week one.

What keeps you committed to your partner?

He Said:

Love.  I feel Kelli is my partner, all the corny “you complete me” stuff applies here.
Commitment.  I promised Kelli to grow old with her.
Fear.  I am more afraid of losing Kelli and the boys than anything in the world.
Joy.  I do love being married and being a father.  It is a total rush of fun, challenge, adventure, and fulfillment.

She Said:

Tony is an amazing person.  He is extremely giving, patient and slow to anger.  I dwell on these positive characteristics.  He brings out the best in me by pointing out my flaws in a loving way.  I am not naive enough to assume that the grass is greener  in someone else’s garden.  I may have married young, but I dated enough guys to know that everyone has their baggage.  No one is perfect and to assume that I am going to find the kind of romance you see in movies in some other person is just not reality.

Is there an area of personal growth that you need to work on in order for your marriage to thrive?

He Said:

There are many areas, one that I am willing to share is about my personal health.  I feel I have dragged Kelli and my older son into a sedentary lifestyle.  My job requires many hours of sitting, and my first instinct is not to jump up at the end of the day and go out for a hike or bike ride.  I just transfer to a different place to sit.  I see my son following my lead and it scares me.  I want my family to see that I desire an active lifestyle where I am more likely to be working in the yard than sitting on the couch.  This may not seem directly related to my marriage, but it is.  If I am more active, I will be more healthy and attractive to Kelli.  If Kelli is more active because of me, she will have more energy… we will both have more energy to be better parents.  If I am healthier, our marriage can last longer and I won’t become a burden on Kelli as we grow older.

She Said:

I have two things that compete with each other in my head.  One is this inner voice that tells me “I’m not good enough”.  Not a good enough mother/friend/wife/daughter/employee/Christian/etc…

On the flip side, I am also a selfish person who thinks of her own needs and wants before others.  I have been working on both of these things for a very long time and finally, finally after years and years, feel like I’m getting a foothold on both of them.  But it’s obvious how these things can play out in my marriage and conflicts within it.

Thank you, Tony and Kelli, for being so open, free, and generous with your wisdom and insights about your experience with marriage.  Thank you thank you thank you!

For a re-cap on our Perspectives panelists, go here.

What is a surefire thing you can do that will create a meltdown in your relationship?

Jodie: Bring up old girl friends. Let the house get super messy. Complain about the time he’s away at soccer (he coaches high school). Nag him the second he walks in the door from work. And a million other small buttons I’ve learned over the years!

Matt: Tell her that she is like her mom.  I did that once.  Woops.

Courtney: Not tell my husband about something I am planning on doing. Messing with something that is important to him without asking him first. My husband not saying anything nice to me for awhile or not being physically affectionate for awhile.  Not spending enough time together, anxiety and artificial hormones.

What have you learned about effective communication with your spouse?

Jodie: I feel like I have mainly learned how NOT to communicate with him! HA! Really, there are two main things I’ve learned over the years that work so great for us. First, if I have a list in my head of things that need to get done on Saturday, whether it’s chores around the house or errands or even if I need him to watch all the kids b/c I have to work, I have learned to start talking about it Monday morning! Every day I mention it so that he has all week to prepare himself for that day. He really hates it when we wake up on the weekend and he wants to do one thing and I have the whole day planned out for the family already. In the beginning it used to cause all sorts of problems. Now I give him fair warning and the weekend sails by smoothly… for the most part! The other thing I’ve learned, which is WAY more important, is to take him at face value. I used to spend countless hours worrying that he was mad at me when he said he was fine but was “acting” mad. And the more I worried the more often I would ask him, “Are you sure you’re ok? Did I do something? Are you mad at me? Why are you in a bad mood if you’re not mad?” and on and on and on, which just ticked him off more and we’d end up having a real fight. I’ve learned that sometimes he’s just in a grumpy mood and that’s ok! Everyone is sometimes. So when he says he’s not mad I believe him and go about my business without egging his mood on. That simple idea of “believe what he says” has worked wonders in my life!

Matt: I have learned that we communicate differently.  That was easy.  I have learned that effective communication means listening and not necessarily solving what Sherri is sharing with me.  I’ve learned that effective communication has to be intentional, that I have to make mental and physical notes to remember to include her in the parts of my life that are lived away from her.  We communicate best when we go for walks outside together daily and are able to focus on each other – so we only communicate during the warm months which means that we don’t from mid October through the end of March.  I hate Michigan… I digress.

Courtney: Communicating when you are calm is most effective.  Honoring what they say and communicating that you hear what they are trying to say by repeating it back to them is huge, and always, always apologize for being hurtful or irrational.  Don’t say the “D” word – Divorce. Don’t threaten and remind them that you are here to stay when you have to communicate about something that is hard.  When we communicate like that it goes well and we feel heard.  But, of course, that is when we do that.

Dave: Probably the most helpful aspect of communication I have learned has been a result the many hours and dollars spent with my counselor.  Primarily, I have learned how to “peel back the layers” of what I am saying to get to the heart of what I’m trying to communicate.  For my wife and I, this means instead of blurting out the first, instinctual thought that comes into our head whenever we feel wronged, we take a moment to consider what, specifically, was hurtful.  More often than not, the issue wasn’t that there was any sort of intentionality in the perceived offense, rather, old wounds may have triggered a response.  Thus, after sitting with it for a bit, we can avoid reactionary and damaging comments to one another, which gives us the opportunity to get to the heart of an issue.  Arguments last a fraction of the time.

HUGE thanks to Courtney, Dave, Matt, and Jodie for your thoughtful (and funny) responses to all of my questions!!!

For a quick refresher on Tony and Kelli, see part 1.

How do you tend to manage conflict as a couple?

He Said:

Neither of us hide our issues very well, so we tend to deal pretty quickly.   We tend to discuss in terms of “how I feel” and “I get frustrated when” type statements because both of us are sensitive to being projected upon or accused.  We also let our issues get worked out with the kids around so they can learn to manage conflict well too.  When we know it’s going to get difficult we actually write emails to each other so we can express our feelings in a manner that can’t get interrupted and isn’t clouded by emotion during the heat of discussion.  Unfortunately we never fight passionately enough for make-up sex.

She Said:

We are in most cases immediate “confronters”.  Sometimes Anthony will just get emotionally distant, but by now I can pick up on it pretty fast and call him out on it. We tend to go right then and there to confront and get an issue out of the way.  We’re both pretty good listeners and talk it out.  Rarely do we yell and scream anymore.  Depending on the issue, we will often create an actual plan of action.  For example, Tony has a mesage box that pops up on his computer at 5pm to tell him that work is over because he found himself just sitting on the computer and either working or playing just because he works from home and there wasn’t necessarily anything else to do.  But I wanted him to be with us, even if it was sitting at the table reading the paper while I’m cooking dinner.

I know it sounds a bit convenient and easy, but we just know each other.  We don’t really have many new issues.  It’s all the same ones and because we’re pretty honest and open about them they are actually growing smaller.

How do you and your spouse repair broken trust?

Written by Dave Huff

Nearly every married couple has stood on some semblance of a stage, in front of hundreds of their closest friends and family and promised each other the world – a world free from hurt and broken trust.  I truly wouldn’t be surprised to hear a couple vow to never, ever cause the other stress, irritation or any unwanted pain, whatsoever, for however long they both shall live.  Every married couple knows irritation, stress and pain is exactly what we are signing up for.  What a relief it would be to hear a couple vow to piss each other off at least once a day because, in all honestly, we’re both flawed creatures with baggage and morning breath.
But I digress.
I have some specific insight into this question as my first marriage ended because of broken trust, among other issues.  I wounded my ex-wife deeply through my unfaithfulness and every conversation following it ultimately revolved around the concept of how she would ever trust me again.  I think most couples who face daunting situations of broken trust end up throwing in the towel not out of lack of effort, but because our collective notion of what trust looks like is often misplaced.  It is essential that we do not equate relational trust with safety; that is, a level of certainty that guarantees we won’t be hurt by our significant other.  In fact, it is my opinion that the type of growth I spoke of in the last question is usually born out of pain – the type of pain which occurs when we fail one another.  I’m not advocating breaking your spouse’s trust in order to grow your marriage but, frankly, you will.  You will lie.  You will blurt out an incredibly insensitive and damaging comment that re-opens old wounds.  You will be a grade-A ass at some point.
It is with a great deal of personal pain and loss that I have arrived at my own understanding of what must take place when a couple finds themselves dealing with broken trust, and I have come to understand that our instincts do not serve us well.  The individual who did the trust-breaking will often promise anything under the sun to restore order, most likely repeating over and over that the offense will never take place again.  And the wounded partner will search for proof, some factual evidence that they will not be exposed to this hurt again.  And, as you probably already know, there ain’t enough promises or proof that will ever satisfy.
What must take place is transformation as well as the acknowledgement of our own brokenness.
I would go so far as to suggest that the transgressor shouldn’t even attempt to promise they won’t do it again – despite the allure from both sides, it will inevitably come off as shallow and empty.  Why?  Because there is no proof.  The proof your spouse truly needs (and he/she probably doesn’t know it) is the transformation that accompanies the inward wrestling of what drove us to lie, cheat – insert your bad behavior here – in the first place.  Failure opens the door to growth, it reveals our darkness, the places in us that have gone unheeded and left to rot – those same ugly names we have acquired over our lifetime.  If we examine ourselves well when we hurt our spouse, hopefully we encounter the real reason we allowed ourselves to break trust, and I believe simply owning these parts of ourselves goes a great distance in healing them.
I mean, which statement do you think holds the better chance or restoring trust?
“Honey, I’m sorry I hurt you.  I’ll never do it again, I promise.  Please, you can trust me…”
Or
“Honey, I blew it.  I’ve been doing some soul searching and counseling and I think there are some issues stemming from a previous relationship which I never really dealt with.  This type of behavior was a way for me to cope with the past and I guess I just assumed it would go away.  I don’t want to be held captive by this, I want to heal from it.”
Granted, this isn’t instantaneous, but it is at least more authentic that, “gosh, I’m not sure why I did it… kind of got caught up in the moment I suppose.” Now, I acknowledge that there are levels of broken trust – repairing a relationship that has been damaged by infidelity is substantially more difficult than one where a wife found her husband lingering over the panty ads in the Sunday paper.  So “transformation” is a loose term, essentially meaning a genuine movement within us, but it is imperative towards trust.
On the flip side of this issue is the acknowledgment of personal brokenness on the part of the hurt spouse.  What inevitably happens in a situation of broken trust is an instantly created sense of one-up, one-down.
“You have hurt me and you must earn my trust again.  Until then, I am in a position of power in our relationship.”
This, obviously, goes unspoken but anyone who has been on either side of broken trust knows it is true – but in any case, if there continues to be a one-up one-down approach, you can be sure real trust won’t be regained.  Only when we embrace the fact that we have hurt others too, that we have all fallen short of the mark and have needed grace along the way are we in a position to actually see our spouse’s transformation.  The biggest obstacle here is the fear that we are absolving our spouse of wrongdoing.  It isn’t true, you’re only giving up on the entitled concept that you set the bar as high as you’d like it to be for your spouse to jump over and regain your trust.  This is a flawed approach which will never end.  I’m also not talking about cheap forgiveness, I’m simply saying the only way not to be imprisoned by the fear and anger that accompanies making another pay for hurting you is to acknowledge your own humanity.  Not to mention, how you set the tone for allowing yourself to trust in your spouse’s heart again may be what you find when the shoe is on the other foot.

For a recap on all of our panelists, see here.

Jodie Allen
Matt Whiteford
Courtney Lynch	Dave Huff

Tell us about a time that you were not sure if your marriage would survive.  How did you handle this?

Jodie: Right before I delivered our third baby we had a fight, the same one we always have which is caused by me feeling under-appreciated and him feeling as if I don’t respect him, after yelling for over an hour I told him I couldn’t fight anymore, I grabbed our sleeping babies (they were 1 and 2) and drove to my parents house. As I was walking out the door he told me that if I left I shouldn’t come back. And I said that if he really wanted to be in this marriage he had to make a commitment to working on it.  It was bad. And a super low point. Looking back though, I was ready to pop with baby and incredibly exhausted and hormonal, we were about to have three kids UNDER three and were totally overwhelmed. We had more stress in our life than I wish on anyone. Anyway, although I do not suggest walking out, it gave us a night of breathing room and the next day after work he came and got me to talk. We worked everything out and ultimately went to our minister to seek guidance. He gave us some amazing advice; we worked on it and are still working on it. Our marriage that is. Luckily we have incredible support from both our families, we have amazing friends and a church family that are always there too. We are very blessed.

Matt: I don’t know if I have ever really thought that our marriage would not survive… I’ve thought I may not survive, but that is a legal loophole.  I believe that Sherri is so in love with Jesus that she would never leave me.  That’s is true for me as well. Walking away from our marriage is like walking away from Jesus because He was and is so instrumental in our meeting, developing as a couple, and our life together.  There have been really hard times, but I honestly don’t thing I have every questioned if our marriage would survive.  

Courtney: About a year and half into our marriage I was so upset at our lack of growth and change – specifically with his lack of affection - that I thought I might have blown it by marrying.  Then I remember that I went into this with the knowledge that he was not Casanova and I also knew that he was a good man that GOD moved me to marry.  I am committed first to God, next to my husband and finally to myself.  Therefore, I would figure out what I could do to work on me, love my husband better to marriage, and expect God for change.  So on good days now – that is what I still think – on bad days….not so much.  But currently there are more good than bad days!

How do you and your spouse repair broken trust?

Jodie: We talk. Chris and I have been friends since we were 14, dating (on and off) since we were 18 and 11 years later (we are 29) we are still good friends. Best friends. So when trust is broken we talk about it. Unfortunately, in the area of trust, there isn’t a cure-all. You can’t just trust someone again. So added to talking is just time. It takes time to trust again and luckily, in a marriage, you have lots of time. Time until the end of time really. And sooner rather than later you find you have talked enough, let enough time pass and the trust is back in place before you were even aware. It’s nice really.

Matt: Time, consistency, and usually something written in a card that somebody else wrote but I signed.  Actually, I think there are degrees of broken trust and what it would take to repair will be more intensive depending on what it is.  Probably the biggest thing is humility and intentional effort to show that I can be trusted.

Courtney: We don’t break it.  Honesty is absolutely essential in marriage.  I have a saying – “Keep it Clean”. If you do something that you should not have then confess and move forward.  Don’t let there be any secrets or hidden issues in your marriage.  The amazing thing about it – it always will come out – one way or another. A secret does not stay secret to your spouse for forever.

Note from Cara: Dave shared a great wealth of his wisdom and experience with me on the subject of broken trust.  It is stands out on its own, and is very valuable reading, so it will be posted tomorrow morning on its own as a special edition of Perspectives.   So check back tomorrow morning for more from Dave on the topic of repairing trust.