So, you may have noticed that things have slowed down around here a bit.  Oh my!  That is certainly true and I am so sorry about that!  Herb and I were abroad for almost two weeks.  I was unprepared for the time it would take for my body to readjust after this trip, and then from there, life kept happening.  So it has been a month since you have heard anything from me.  But hopefully you are still checking in here from time to time!  Just know that I will have something posted here - written by me - by Wednesday night!  From there, I intend to return to my previous blogging schedule!  Until then, please enjoy getting to know this month’s couple writing for He Said***She Said: Josh and Mandy Wright. They married early in college and have spent their entire adult lives cultivating a healthy, dynamic marriage.  I hope you are as inspired and encouraged by them over the next four weeks as I have been!

Josh and Mandy Wright have been married for nearly 11 years.  They live in St. Louis, MO with their three kids Jonah (9), Emma (6), and Amelia (3).  The Wrights are members of Greentree Community Church.  Josh is a Financial Advisor with Edward Jones, and Mandy works full-time in their home.  You can find Josh here.

What has surprised you about marriage?

He Said: I was so young when we were married, I didn’t know what to expect.  It was all a surprise.

She Said: I don’t think that I realized that God wanted to use my spouse, more than anyone else in my life to change me.  He wanted to show me my flaws, hidden motives and self centered behaviors through my marriage.  I would have loved it if I could have been a perfect partner for Josh from the beginning, but that wasn’t the way it happened.  It was hard for me to see that when I screwed up I not only hurt myself but I also hurt my spouse.  I really hated that at first.  I see now that God wanted me to experience the need for forgiveness from another person.  I spent so much of my life making sure that I didn’t owe anyone anything.  I think God knew that I couldn’t give mercy until I had received it.

What has surprised you about your spouse?

He Said: She is very feeling and longs for companionship.  She is a strong woman—she thinks independently and acts courageously.  These were some of the qualities that I was most attracted to in her.  But she needs reassurance, too.  She needs to be encouraged.  She needs someone to be proud of her.  It was both a surprise and an honor to learn that she hoped to find these things in me.

She Said: His ability to forgive.  I am not so good at letting go of wrongs done to me, but I have received so much mercy and forgiveness from Josh that I am quicker to show mercy now than I was before marriage.

For a quick refresher on Tony and Kelli, see the post from week one.

What keeps you committed to your partner?

He Said:

Love.  I feel Kelli is my partner, all the corny “you complete me” stuff applies here.
Commitment.  I promised Kelli to grow old with her.
Fear.  I am more afraid of losing Kelli and the boys than anything in the world.
Joy.  I do love being married and being a father.  It is a total rush of fun, challenge, adventure, and fulfillment.

She Said:

Tony is an amazing person.  He is extremely giving, patient and slow to anger.  I dwell on these positive characteristics.  He brings out the best in me by pointing out my flaws in a loving way.  I am not naive enough to assume that the grass is greener  in someone else’s garden.  I may have married young, but I dated enough guys to know that everyone has their baggage.  No one is perfect and to assume that I am going to find the kind of romance you see in movies in some other person is just not reality.

Is there an area of personal growth that you need to work on in order for your marriage to thrive?

He Said:

There are many areas, one that I am willing to share is about my personal health.  I feel I have dragged Kelli and my older son into a sedentary lifestyle.  My job requires many hours of sitting, and my first instinct is not to jump up at the end of the day and go out for a hike or bike ride.  I just transfer to a different place to sit.  I see my son following my lead and it scares me.  I want my family to see that I desire an active lifestyle where I am more likely to be working in the yard than sitting on the couch.  This may not seem directly related to my marriage, but it is.  If I am more active, I will be more healthy and attractive to Kelli.  If Kelli is more active because of me, she will have more energy… we will both have more energy to be better parents.  If I am healthier, our marriage can last longer and I won’t become a burden on Kelli as we grow older.

She Said:

I have two things that compete with each other in my head.  One is this inner voice that tells me “I’m not good enough”.  Not a good enough mother/friend/wife/daughter/employee/Christian/etc…

On the flip side, I am also a selfish person who thinks of her own needs and wants before others.  I have been working on both of these things for a very long time and finally, finally after years and years, feel like I’m getting a foothold on both of them.  But it’s obvious how these things can play out in my marriage and conflicts within it.

Thank you, Tony and Kelli, for being so open, free, and generous with your wisdom and insights about your experience with marriage.  Thank you thank you thank you!

For a re-cap on our Perspectives panelists, go here.

What is a surefire thing you can do that will create a meltdown in your relationship?

Jodie: Bring up old girl friends. Let the house get super messy. Complain about the time he’s away at soccer (he coaches high school). Nag him the second he walks in the door from work. And a million other small buttons I’ve learned over the years!

Matt: Tell her that she is like her mom.  I did that once.  Woops.

Courtney: Not tell my husband about something I am planning on doing. Messing with something that is important to him without asking him first. My husband not saying anything nice to me for awhile or not being physically affectionate for awhile.  Not spending enough time together, anxiety and artificial hormones.

What have you learned about effective communication with your spouse?

Jodie: I feel like I have mainly learned how NOT to communicate with him! HA! Really, there are two main things I’ve learned over the years that work so great for us. First, if I have a list in my head of things that need to get done on Saturday, whether it’s chores around the house or errands or even if I need him to watch all the kids b/c I have to work, I have learned to start talking about it Monday morning! Every day I mention it so that he has all week to prepare himself for that day. He really hates it when we wake up on the weekend and he wants to do one thing and I have the whole day planned out for the family already. In the beginning it used to cause all sorts of problems. Now I give him fair warning and the weekend sails by smoothly… for the most part! The other thing I’ve learned, which is WAY more important, is to take him at face value. I used to spend countless hours worrying that he was mad at me when he said he was fine but was “acting” mad. And the more I worried the more often I would ask him, “Are you sure you’re ok? Did I do something? Are you mad at me? Why are you in a bad mood if you’re not mad?” and on and on and on, which just ticked him off more and we’d end up having a real fight. I’ve learned that sometimes he’s just in a grumpy mood and that’s ok! Everyone is sometimes. So when he says he’s not mad I believe him and go about my business without egging his mood on. That simple idea of “believe what he says” has worked wonders in my life!

Matt: I have learned that we communicate differently.  That was easy.  I have learned that effective communication means listening and not necessarily solving what Sherri is sharing with me.  I’ve learned that effective communication has to be intentional, that I have to make mental and physical notes to remember to include her in the parts of my life that are lived away from her.  We communicate best when we go for walks outside together daily and are able to focus on each other – so we only communicate during the warm months which means that we don’t from mid October through the end of March.  I hate Michigan… I digress.

Courtney: Communicating when you are calm is most effective.  Honoring what they say and communicating that you hear what they are trying to say by repeating it back to them is huge, and always, always apologize for being hurtful or irrational.  Don’t say the “D” word – Divorce. Don’t threaten and remind them that you are here to stay when you have to communicate about something that is hard.  When we communicate like that it goes well and we feel heard.  But, of course, that is when we do that.

Dave: Probably the most helpful aspect of communication I have learned has been a result the many hours and dollars spent with my counselor.  Primarily, I have learned how to “peel back the layers” of what I am saying to get to the heart of what I’m trying to communicate.  For my wife and I, this means instead of blurting out the first, instinctual thought that comes into our head whenever we feel wronged, we take a moment to consider what, specifically, was hurtful.  More often than not, the issue wasn’t that there was any sort of intentionality in the perceived offense, rather, old wounds may have triggered a response.  Thus, after sitting with it for a bit, we can avoid reactionary and damaging comments to one another, which gives us the opportunity to get to the heart of an issue.  Arguments last a fraction of the time.

HUGE thanks to Courtney, Dave, Matt, and Jodie for your thoughtful (and funny) responses to all of my questions!!!

For a quick refresher on Tony and Kelli, see part 1.

How do you tend to manage conflict as a couple?

He Said:

Neither of us hide our issues very well, so we tend to deal pretty quickly.   We tend to discuss in terms of “how I feel” and “I get frustrated when” type statements because both of us are sensitive to being projected upon or accused.  We also let our issues get worked out with the kids around so they can learn to manage conflict well too.  When we know it’s going to get difficult we actually write emails to each other so we can express our feelings in a manner that can’t get interrupted and isn’t clouded by emotion during the heat of discussion.  Unfortunately we never fight passionately enough for make-up sex.

She Said:

We are in most cases immediate “confronters”.  Sometimes Anthony will just get emotionally distant, but by now I can pick up on it pretty fast and call him out on it. We tend to go right then and there to confront and get an issue out of the way.  We’re both pretty good listeners and talk it out.  Rarely do we yell and scream anymore.  Depending on the issue, we will often create an actual plan of action.  For example, Tony has a mesage box that pops up on his computer at 5pm to tell him that work is over because he found himself just sitting on the computer and either working or playing just because he works from home and there wasn’t necessarily anything else to do.  But I wanted him to be with us, even if it was sitting at the table reading the paper while I’m cooking dinner.

I know it sounds a bit convenient and easy, but we just know each other.  We don’t really have many new issues.  It’s all the same ones and because we’re pretty honest and open about them they are actually growing smaller.

How do you and your spouse repair broken trust?

Written by Dave Huff

Nearly every married couple has stood on some semblance of a stage, in front of hundreds of their closest friends and family and promised each other the world – a world free from hurt and broken trust.  I truly wouldn’t be surprised to hear a couple vow to never, ever cause the other stress, irritation or any unwanted pain, whatsoever, for however long they both shall live.  Every married couple knows irritation, stress and pain is exactly what we are signing up for.  What a relief it would be to hear a couple vow to piss each other off at least once a day because, in all honestly, we’re both flawed creatures with baggage and morning breath.
But I digress.
I have some specific insight into this question as my first marriage ended because of broken trust, among other issues.  I wounded my ex-wife deeply through my unfaithfulness and every conversation following it ultimately revolved around the concept of how she would ever trust me again.  I think most couples who face daunting situations of broken trust end up throwing in the towel not out of lack of effort, but because our collective notion of what trust looks like is often misplaced.  It is essential that we do not equate relational trust with safety; that is, a level of certainty that guarantees we won’t be hurt by our significant other.  In fact, it is my opinion that the type of growth I spoke of in the last question is usually born out of pain – the type of pain which occurs when we fail one another.  I’m not advocating breaking your spouse’s trust in order to grow your marriage but, frankly, you will.  You will lie.  You will blurt out an incredibly insensitive and damaging comment that re-opens old wounds.  You will be a grade-A ass at some point.
It is with a great deal of personal pain and loss that I have arrived at my own understanding of what must take place when a couple finds themselves dealing with broken trust, and I have come to understand that our instincts do not serve us well.  The individual who did the trust-breaking will often promise anything under the sun to restore order, most likely repeating over and over that the offense will never take place again.  And the wounded partner will search for proof, some factual evidence that they will not be exposed to this hurt again.  And, as you probably already know, there ain’t enough promises or proof that will ever satisfy.
What must take place is transformation as well as the acknowledgement of our own brokenness.
I would go so far as to suggest that the transgressor shouldn’t even attempt to promise they won’t do it again – despite the allure from both sides, it will inevitably come off as shallow and empty.  Why?  Because there is no proof.  The proof your spouse truly needs (and he/she probably doesn’t know it) is the transformation that accompanies the inward wrestling of what drove us to lie, cheat – insert your bad behavior here – in the first place.  Failure opens the door to growth, it reveals our darkness, the places in us that have gone unheeded and left to rot – those same ugly names we have acquired over our lifetime.  If we examine ourselves well when we hurt our spouse, hopefully we encounter the real reason we allowed ourselves to break trust, and I believe simply owning these parts of ourselves goes a great distance in healing them.
I mean, which statement do you think holds the better chance or restoring trust?
“Honey, I’m sorry I hurt you.  I’ll never do it again, I promise.  Please, you can trust me…”
Or
“Honey, I blew it.  I’ve been doing some soul searching and counseling and I think there are some issues stemming from a previous relationship which I never really dealt with.  This type of behavior was a way for me to cope with the past and I guess I just assumed it would go away.  I don’t want to be held captive by this, I want to heal from it.”
Granted, this isn’t instantaneous, but it is at least more authentic that, “gosh, I’m not sure why I did it… kind of got caught up in the moment I suppose.” Now, I acknowledge that there are levels of broken trust – repairing a relationship that has been damaged by infidelity is substantially more difficult than one where a wife found her husband lingering over the panty ads in the Sunday paper.  So “transformation” is a loose term, essentially meaning a genuine movement within us, but it is imperative towards trust.
On the flip side of this issue is the acknowledgment of personal brokenness on the part of the hurt spouse.  What inevitably happens in a situation of broken trust is an instantly created sense of one-up, one-down.
“You have hurt me and you must earn my trust again.  Until then, I am in a position of power in our relationship.”
This, obviously, goes unspoken but anyone who has been on either side of broken trust knows it is true – but in any case, if there continues to be a one-up one-down approach, you can be sure real trust won’t be regained.  Only when we embrace the fact that we have hurt others too, that we have all fallen short of the mark and have needed grace along the way are we in a position to actually see our spouse’s transformation.  The biggest obstacle here is the fear that we are absolving our spouse of wrongdoing.  It isn’t true, you’re only giving up on the entitled concept that you set the bar as high as you’d like it to be for your spouse to jump over and regain your trust.  This is a flawed approach which will never end.  I’m also not talking about cheap forgiveness, I’m simply saying the only way not to be imprisoned by the fear and anger that accompanies making another pay for hurting you is to acknowledge your own humanity.  Not to mention, how you set the tone for allowing yourself to trust in your spouse’s heart again may be what you find when the shoe is on the other foot.

For a recap on all of our panelists, see here.

Jodie Allen
Matt Whiteford
Courtney Lynch	Dave Huff

Tell us about a time that you were not sure if your marriage would survive.  How did you handle this?

Jodie: Right before I delivered our third baby we had a fight, the same one we always have which is caused by me feeling under-appreciated and him feeling as if I don’t respect him, after yelling for over an hour I told him I couldn’t fight anymore, I grabbed our sleeping babies (they were 1 and 2) and drove to my parents house. As I was walking out the door he told me that if I left I shouldn’t come back. And I said that if he really wanted to be in this marriage he had to make a commitment to working on it.  It was bad. And a super low point. Looking back though, I was ready to pop with baby and incredibly exhausted and hormonal, we were about to have three kids UNDER three and were totally overwhelmed. We had more stress in our life than I wish on anyone. Anyway, although I do not suggest walking out, it gave us a night of breathing room and the next day after work he came and got me to talk. We worked everything out and ultimately went to our minister to seek guidance. He gave us some amazing advice; we worked on it and are still working on it. Our marriage that is. Luckily we have incredible support from both our families, we have amazing friends and a church family that are always there too. We are very blessed.

Matt: I don’t know if I have ever really thought that our marriage would not survive… I’ve thought I may not survive, but that is a legal loophole.  I believe that Sherri is so in love with Jesus that she would never leave me.  That’s is true for me as well. Walking away from our marriage is like walking away from Jesus because He was and is so instrumental in our meeting, developing as a couple, and our life together.  There have been really hard times, but I honestly don’t thing I have every questioned if our marriage would survive.  

Courtney: About a year and half into our marriage I was so upset at our lack of growth and change – specifically with his lack of affection - that I thought I might have blown it by marrying.  Then I remember that I went into this with the knowledge that he was not Casanova and I also knew that he was a good man that GOD moved me to marry.  I am committed first to God, next to my husband and finally to myself.  Therefore, I would figure out what I could do to work on me, love my husband better to marriage, and expect God for change.  So on good days now – that is what I still think – on bad days….not so much.  But currently there are more good than bad days!

How do you and your spouse repair broken trust?

Jodie: We talk. Chris and I have been friends since we were 14, dating (on and off) since we were 18 and 11 years later (we are 29) we are still good friends. Best friends. So when trust is broken we talk about it. Unfortunately, in the area of trust, there isn’t a cure-all. You can’t just trust someone again. So added to talking is just time. It takes time to trust again and luckily, in a marriage, you have lots of time. Time until the end of time really. And sooner rather than later you find you have talked enough, let enough time pass and the trust is back in place before you were even aware. It’s nice really.

Matt: Time, consistency, and usually something written in a card that somebody else wrote but I signed.  Actually, I think there are degrees of broken trust and what it would take to repair will be more intensive depending on what it is.  Probably the biggest thing is humility and intentional effort to show that I can be trusted.

Courtney: We don’t break it.  Honesty is absolutely essential in marriage.  I have a saying – “Keep it Clean”. If you do something that you should not have then confess and move forward.  Don’t let there be any secrets or hidden issues in your marriage.  The amazing thing about it – it always will come out – one way or another. A secret does not stay secret to your spouse for forever.

Note from Cara: Dave shared a great wealth of his wisdom and experience with me on the subject of broken trust.  It is stands out on its own, and is very valuable reading, so it will be posted tomorrow morning on its own as a special edition of Perspectives.   So check back tomorrow morning for more from Dave on the topic of repairing trust.

Melanie Kleimola is a part-time English Graduate student at Northern Illinois University, a full-time wife to Andrew and mother to her two children, Aidan and Catie.  You can find more of Melanie’s insights and stories on Does This Blog Make Me Look Fat?
When I was single, I hated being alone. In a lot of ways, for much of my adult life, I hated my singleness. This was not a long period of time, as I married at age 24, but still, I longed for marriage: to experience unconditional love, intimacy and let’s be honest, sex. My husband and I wasted no time. We met, dated, married, and even bought our first house within one year.

Last month, Cara posted something here about marriage being filled with unexpected things about your partner. Unbearable morning breath, odd bathroom habits, and general sloppiness are a few things that might surprise a young bride or groom about a person who had been on their best behavior prior to the wedding. But for me, the biggest surprise didn’t come from my husband; it came from me. Marriage has revealed many things about ME that I either did not know were there, or was simply able to ignore prior to the wedding.

As a single person, I think I was generally able to keep my own undesirable qualities in check most of the time. When I found myself in situations that brought out the worst in me, I had the opportunity to remove myself, take a break and regroup. While marriage does afford a person some quiet alone time, if a couple is really about the business of becoming one, then even if one or the other finds herself alone, her husband is still with her. On a practical level, the sharing of one’s space and world and life and relationships and friendships and time and money and self can be overwhelming at times. No matter where I am or what I’m doing, I am always Andrew’s wife.

What was once a selfish need for perfection can now impact the way my husband feels about himself. My problem with anger is now my kids’ problem with anger. These people now have an all access 24/7/365 pass to my life. It forces me to look at myself, to see myself good, bad and ugly. And sometimes this really sucks. The hardest thing about marriage and family for me is that they challenge me more than anything ever has, as such bringing me to the end of myself where all the tired, anxious, ugly habits hide. There is no escaping now; I HAVE to deal with it.

While I have found my marriage is a place of grace and forgiveness most of the time, looking into the eyes of that person I love the most knowing that my shortcomings have hurt him is not an easy thing. There are times when I’d prefer his anger over his kindness. Nothing leads the heart to repentance like forgiveness. Sometimes when we argue, my husband and I have said to one another that we feel undeserving of the other’s love. Awhile ago, I started responding that no one deserves love because it’s a gift.

Sometimes in marriage we just have to receive the love, grace and forgiveness our spouse offers us. In the same way marriage and family can bring out the worst in us, it can also bring out the best in us. When we face the ugliness in ourselves, knowing that it impacts the people we love and cherish is a great motivator to submit to the transforming power that God offers each of us everyday.

For a quick refresher on Kelli and Tony, read pt. 1

What triggers (past or present) your day-dreams about leaving your marriage?

He Said:
Honestly, I don’t have these.  I don’t want to be self-righteous, but I just don’t.  Honestly, I live in fear of being without my wife and kids.  I don’t miss living alone

She Said:
Really and truly I don’t have those thoughts.  I suppose I may have a long time ago in moments of extreme anger, but I don’t really remember.  I actually worry about being left.  When I have hurt Anthony in a way that I can tell it is going to take some time to heal, I worry that he is going to leave me.  I worry that finally he is going to realize that I’m not the girl that he thought I was and leave me.  This is my wounding from my childhood.  People get upset and they leave me either physically or emotionally, so this is what I assume Anthony will do when times get tough.

For a recap on all of our panelists, see here.

Jodie Allen
Matt Whiteford
Courtney Lynch	Dave Huff

Can marriage change a person?

Jodie: Yes, totally.

Matt: If marriage does not change a person, than I don’t think that person is married.  There is no way to go from 2 to 1 without changing.  I think that’s why so many marriages don’t make it (that was for free).

Courtney: Yes and No.  The only person it can change is the one who wants to be changed.  If that is you, then you will change, if that is your spouse, then they will change.

Dave: Um, it had better change a person.  What else should we expect?  A marriage is a living, breathing entity in many ways, and can only grow and mature if the two people who comprise the union grow and mature.  Anything else is simply an agreement for two individuals to operate their lives under the same roof with tax benefits.  What we must not expect of our spouse (or ourselves for that matter) is how and when change and growth shall take place – we must simply make room for it to happen through grace, patience and the humility that accompanies an understanding that we do not have the clairvoyance to know what is best for the other.

Should we expect our spouse to change and

grow over the years?

Jodie: Yes, but never in the way we hope! I know Chris wishes desperately that I would change and not be such a pile-creator. Or that I would stop leaving 15 water glasses on my bedside table. Or that I would clean my car out once in a while. And I of course wish he saw the things I did around our home more clearly. And I wish he would get used to the fact that I am not a good cook and probably never will be. However. In just 4+ short years we are changing how we speak to each other so as not to purposely hurt one another when angry. And we are learning to be more patient with one another, more forgiving and less judgmental. I try to keep my piles to a minimum and he takes care of my water glasses without saying a word.

Matt: Second part, yes, however sometimes I think we focus more on our spouses changing than ourselves.  It is easy to point the finger and blame Sherri for not changing as I sit here avoiding changing the things that will ultimately make our marriage better even if she doesn’t change.  Sometimes the change I think should be happening in Sherri’s life is not the change that she needs (again, playing to the selfish thing).

Courtney: I think that our daily influence on a person and, theirs on us, can change the way a person reacts, behaves and performs in life, but it is slow and requires tons of consistency.  I also think that the core of a person – their character - will not change unless they want to change.Dave: What we must not expect of our spouse (or ourselves for that matter) is how and when change and growth shall take place – we must simply make room for it to happen through grace, patience and the humility that accompanies an understanding that we do not have the clairvoyance to know what is best for the other.